Oct

18

2009

The God Post

God came to visit Chez Spud today. I was so unprepared, just dashing about trying to get us all suited and booted and out of the door for a baptism. I was wrapping a gift for baby Sofie when BAAAAAHHHMMMM in He came. Actually I invited him in, but by stealth.  I suddenly realised,  whilst telling Bertie (4) where we were going, that I have never talked to him about religion or God or faith before. Well, believe me, that’s quite a chunky topic to tackle on a Sunday morning with no preparation and about 3 minutes to spare.

Of course it’s my own fault. I’ve had four whole YEARS to address this but apathy and spinelessness have got the better of me. Mea culpa. Issue number one: I’m not completely confident in what I believe myself, although I was brought up as a Catholic. Issue number two: MrSpud is a committed atheist. Issue number three: despite being an atheist, MrSpud is annoyingly knowledgeable about doctrine and can argue me under the table whenever I make feeble attempts to justify any kind of faith I may have. Issue four: MrSpud passionately disproves of the Roman Catholic faith.

So, there’s a whole SOUP of issues knocking about which has led to my children being (a) not baptised and (b) totally ignorant of religion, of any kind.

Well, dear reader, let me tell you that I made a complete MESS of my Spud Does God talk. Bertie understood about welcoming Sofie in to God’s family, and knows about church and praying to God. But clearly he thinks God is like Santa Claus, possibly on the back of a discussion about praying to God for things that you want to happen or want…”Oh, but what does Dod (sic) look like…does he have a big white beard?”

It wasn’t really a very satisfactory discussion since I had no idea what I was trying to say, and I couldn’t completely endorse what I was saying (ie. “I believe that….”….er, dunno, so let’s go with “Some people believe that….” and hope you don’t ask me if I believe it too because we’re already running late and I haven’t put my make up on yet…).

So off we toddled to church, and baby Sofie was dunked (but didn’t cry, much to the disappointment of the priest) and Bertie watched but didn’t look very interested. I asked him what he thought as we went out of the church, “Oh, very good…it didn’t take very long did it?”, he said, as clearly that is the measure of whether anything is any good or not. And I thought I’d got away with it for now. Check out baby Sofie’s gown, her very clever Mama made it…self-covered buttons and everything!

Afterwards there was a party with cake (pictured above) and crisps and toys and fun. As I put him to bed tonight I asked him what the best bit of today was. I was confident he’d say the cake, or his riding lesson this morning. “Oh, that thing with Sofie. What did you call it? In that church…with Dod. When she joined that thing, at the church?”…”Oh when Sofie was baptised, and joined God’s family?”…I said, much surprised….”Yes, when Sofie joined God’s family, that was the best thing. But, but, but….will she still be our friend? Now she’s in God’s family? Because I love baby Sofie and I will miss her.”

Clearly I have funked. The poor child is so confused. I need to sort out my own faith, or lack of it, tackle MrSpud and address it properly with the boys. Ideally by tomorrow. The day after? World peace.

But tell me, believers and non believers and inthemiddlelikeme-ers, what did you/would you say to a four year old about faith? HELP.

x

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  • I found this post through Julie (http://julochka.blogspot.com/) and was very interested to read it.

    Good for you for asking the question about what to say to a four year old.

    I am an atheist, but spent half of my life in the church. I was a sunday school teacher, youth group leader, teacher in two different christian schools and a youth pastor (more or less). I pretty much drank the cool-aid, but I was never able to turn my brain off* (*required).

    I think that you should wait until your son is about 15 or 16 and then teach him what a number of different religions preach and don't fail to mention that there are many agnostics and atheists. Let him come to a decision himself ONCE HE IS OLD ENOUGH TO THINK RATIONALLY AND ANALYZE BELIEFS BASED ON EVIDENCE. Little children are so important to churches because if they can get them young, they are indoctrinated for life. So please, for the love of freedom in thinking, wait until he is truly old enough to think rationally and then have this conversation with him.

    Glenn

    In case you or anyone else is interested, here is a link to my deconversion story: http://glennkachmar.blogspot.com/2008/03/deconversion-story.html
  • I have a gift for you and the boys. You will love it and the boys will love it, and you will find it very helpful. I'll put it in the post as soon as I can.
  • issue way too big to offer good advice...but i'm thinking i'd say, go for those cakes, honey! they look like they came from Dod him/herself. divine. heavenly. such things could undoubtedly make one believe.
  • wow, that's a big subject to tackle. I don't think my parents ever talked about god with me, at least not when I was a kid. I think you did a good job with it, talking honestly about it.
    k xxx
  • Hmmm... I know what I believe but I'm not sure what it's called really. I'm not an atheist because I do believe in something bigger than us. But I think it's something we couldn't possibly comprehend and it's not concerned with the fiddling details of our lives or most of what we do. I guess it's as much a "mother nature" as God. The kids' dad is an atheist, an aunt is Baptist, 4 aunts are somewhere in the middle and Grammy is Catholic. So they get a bit of everything from family.

    Anyway, so far I've only spoken with my 8 year old about it because the kids at school are talking about it and he wanted to know from me if his friend had it wrong. I explained that different people believe different things. I explained what his dad believes, what I believe, and what some of the bigger religions believe. So far he is taking dad's views (staunch atheist) and then he looked at me like "is that okay?" to which I told him that he can believe anything he wants about it and don't let anyone tell him otherwise. And that he's also entitled to change his mind later if he wants to. I try to give my kids all sides and then I'll let them make up their own minds as they grow.
  • I wish I knew the answer - we have a similar problem to you, Mr Muddling is a VERY committed non believer and I'm a bit of a wooly catholic who does take Toddlergirl to church but hasn't yet had to talk through any of it

    Hoping that you can find the answers here and I can borrow it !
  • Thanks everyone...very interesting, and so good to know I'm not alone! I think Otin you are quite right. Why deprive them of the opportunity of faith, and they can make up their minds later.

    I do hope MrSpud is reading this so I don't have to bother having the conversation with him. He can just read his life plan right here ;-) x
  • I just wrote about this, too! It's a hard question sounds like you are in a good struggle with it.

    I go to church and make my daughter go too. Now that she is nine, it's hard and she puts up a protest. The reasons I want her to go are to experience gratitude, community, hope and love. For us, that happens in the presence of church. For others, that happens in the woods or on a beach.

    Whether or not we get dunked, we're all part of God's family - the trees, the pigs, the farm, the children, the cupcakes! All of it. How you define God and how you define family is up to you!
  • Sister AliBongo
    OK my darling the answer is simple, join the Methodists.
    I was raised Anglican (may as well have been Catholic) and Steve didn't go to church at all, his family are kind of Baptists but not really.
    We both had a lot of unanswered questions and knew we wanted to teach the girls so that they could make up their own minds. There is a big methodist church here in town and a lot of my friends already were attending so slowly but surely we attended and listened and learned. We started with an Alpha class, you know that Brit guy Nick whatsisname???? Anyway the girls now go to Sunday School, they still mix up stuff about God and Santa and we just muddle along but we like it. Don't worry about it, they will still learn the God stuff in school over there unlike here so you'll at least have some help with the basic stuff, and nativity plays are the cutest!!!!!
  • Lisa
    phew,this is a bit of a whopper isnt it? I agree with some of the others...be honest, and tell him what you think, what others think, and let him decide over time where he stands. little men can be amazingly astute at times! For me one of the most important aspects of religion (well, from the sort of mixed-bag religion of my own creating, that I choose to follow ) is that we should try to be good and kind throughout our lives, and to accept when we are not and say sorry.. What I remember as a child, is loving the stories of miracles and a time long ago....maybe you could find a couple of light reading ones at the library?

    good luck there Spud!
    xxx
  • Wow, Spud, you are seriously brave to open up such a big question....bravo! And, what to tell the four year old? Be honest with him....Children are open to the possibility of God or spirituality, I like to think they are still close to God because they have not had their child like trust worn away by life and cynicism. Tell him what you know and let him like what you've shared with him....a baby's baptism is the perfect place to start, I think! I like that that was his favorite part of the day....what a spiritual beginning for your journey, your's and Bertie's!

    ♥
    S
  • This is my thing to talk about! I am an atheist. When I was young, I treated it like a religion, trying to convince everyone that they were wrong and that I was intellectually superior. As I got older, I realized that people's faith is a blessing to them. It does not matter what I think. If I could have the power to believe in God, then I would welcome it. I would not deprive a young child of Santa, just to prove that I was right. What victory is it for me to prove that our lives mean nothing more than what we have in front of us. Just because I am condemned to think this way does not mean that I need to push my views on others. If I had a child who wanted to practice a faith, I would be happy for my child. It is not easy to think about your own mortality when you feel that there is nothing beyond that. I think that organized religion sucks, but if my kid asked me if there was a God, I would tell them that I do not know and that it would be up to them to decide.
  • Now you've gone and done it, Spud! Obviously the goddess is the person who made those lovely cakes! And the beautiful christening gown. God also brings ponies to good little boys.

    I gave up on church when my parents told me that if I got confirmed as a teenager I would get presents. Then.... No presents! I enjoy theological discussions (sometimes) but basically fall somewhere between agnostic and secular humanist myself. Which is why when I do attend a church service, it's at the Unitarian church... they don't get all wigged out about the whole atheist/agnostic thing. Especially as one of the co-ministers is an atheist. Works for me.

    And I'm still waiting for world peace!
  • I have no idea. I like to believe in goodness. But I got heaps of Jesus-questions form a serious beliver the other day. And I surprised myself listening to the answers coming out of my mouth.
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